Oh 100%! That FTC proposed rule about click to cancel really shows (if you feel like looking into it) how widespread this extremely frustrating approach is. Not to mention the bigger trap of it all.
Sure but who do we vote for that won’t allow corporations to price gouge us? There are a whole bunch of states in the US that have laws prohibiting price gouging during a state of emergency yet the department of Justice did not care to enforce any of those laws at any point in the past few years. We were in a state of emergency from March 2020 until what April 2023? No government state or federal, dem or red hat, did anything about it.
I saw some thing on the Internet recently that said if you are not able to just click to cancel, if you change your address on your account to California they have to let you cancel online if they let you sign up online. I don’t live in a state that has any real consumer protection laws, but California does
Oooooh, I feel this rage all the time still as I try to 100% disentangle myself from the tentacles of the far-reaching U.S. If I went into all the nightmarish, time-wasting instances of trying to escape the traps corporations laid, I'd still be talking about it on my death bed, and it's been getting so much worse over the years. I've had to cancel debit and credit cards so many times just to get the damn bills to stop, and I've had to pay hundreds of dollars in other people's utilities when an electric or other utility company either failed to process a cancellation or made it too difficult to do so that I gave up and the landlord or new owner didn't get the bill switched over to themselves in a timely manner.
As an immigrant in Europe for 10 months now, I can look back and see that literally everything about the U.S. is geared to our enslavement. It takes getting away from the enslaver to really see your life for what it was: the life of a rat in a cage. It is not normal! People in other countries do not live like this and would never accept things Americans have taken as just the way it is.
Yeah back in my 20s and 30s I was super hyper about keeping my credit score good because it was destroyed before I entered adulthood because I had bad parents. But now at 50? Nah I am not paying bills that don’t belong to me. Let them sue me. They can’t get anything from a disabled woman living off SSDI
how did you do it? get to europe? i’m not researching it right because i’ve gotten the impression that it’s not easy to move and that you have to have a skill the country is in need of. is that right? and what were the actual moving costs or did you just go with whatever would fit into a suitcase! 😂 if that’s the way to do it, then ok!
I've written a couple of articles here on Substack that I think would answer your questions and more. But the tl;dr is we determined the criteria we were looking for in a new country, researched a ton about several different countries and narrowed it down to Portugal, did all the preparation for immigrating there, and took only what we could fit in our suitcases and started a new life here. There are many different paths and visa types that can make moving possible for almost anyone. It really comes down to how much of your current lifestyle are you willing to give up or change to embark on a likely better one. It hasn't come without bumps in the road, but it's been so worth it!
I feel this so much. Good on you for leaving. I’m hoping that our little family can move to Europe as well sometime this year. I really miss living abroad. Living in America is just too damn much.
I agree that things are hard to cancel but also the point about monopolies is spot on. The cost of making eyeglasses is far less than the price charged. I was looking this up recently. Someone said they charge high on prices because they can. 😣
Whenever I need glasses I just try them on in the glasses store and pick the ones I want, then I go online and order them. The frames and the thin lenses and whatever other upgrades I wanted would have made them $500 in the store. I paid less than $200 on line. And this place will sell you replacement lenses, so when my prescription changes I just have to send them the new prescription and order the lenses and I can pop them in myself.
The first time my oldest kid tried to get their glasses online, they saw an optometrist for the prescription, but when they asked the person working in the eyeglass area for their pupil distance (something that's needed when ordering online, I guess), she said she wasn't allowed to give that information out. These businesses have made it so you are prevented from getting the info needed to purchase glasses online and so trap you into buying massively overpriced pairs from them.
Here in Portugal, you can walk into an optician, get a free eye exam, and get a complete set of quality, fashionable glasses with lenses for a fraction of the cost in the U.S. Dental is massively more affordable here, too, even with no insurance. And it's modern, high-quality, and compassionate care.
I had my last exam at Visionworks, it’s just one of those chains that they put in strip malls. When I asked them for the pupillary distance they made me sign a waiver acknowledging that they’re giving me this information but they’re not guaranteeing it’s correct. It was fine, but I was like really? I thought you were a professional and I paid you for an exam 🤷🏻♀️ and of course Visionworks sells glasses so of course they didn’t really want me to have it. But they did give it to me.
I need glasses that are like bifocals but without a line. I don’t think I could order them online. If anyone has had success with this type of glasses online let me know.
This is who I ordered from because they had the same exact brand and style of frames that I picked up in the glasses store. I think they can do progressives, but just make sure you get your “pupillary distance” from the eye doctor. They don’t put that on your regular prescription and the online folks need it.
I can't believe I'm reading this. Because it's impossible for me to log in or reach a representative, I've been paying for Verizon service at an apartment I don't live in for six months. Can you imagine being one of the executives who actually devises such a plan for increasing revenue?
It was so hard to even find out how to cancel. Hell first it was hard to even log on to their terrible portal. The chat bot on their website was what we used, and hopefully it works at least sometimes? I don't even know. Tell the bank to stop paying at least worked with Blink
We should hold an award ceremony for most horrible UI across utilities, cell phone, and Internet/cable websites. AT&T has got to be among the frontrunners for 1st place. I am certain their UI is so bad on purpose. I can't imagine it being so bad from mere ignorance.
I’m almost embarrassed by how long I’ve continued to pay my old gym that’s two hours away from where I live now. Remembering that this is a systemic issue and not just my own executive function problem may actually help me get it done.
Not your overall point, I know, but I thank you anyway. It’s funny how I’ll put up with feeling like an individual chump, but show me how it’s a systems problem and I’m so much more motivated to advocate for myself.
The key is if you have a cancellation fee you just have to lie and tell them you are moving to an area where they don’t provide service. For example, I live in New Hampshire and I recently spent about a half hour on the phone canceling my Xfinity Internet. I didn’t have a cancellation fee but if I did I was going to tell them I was moving and I was going to give them my old address in California because I know they don’t service California. And if they can’t provide you service at your new address and you are unable to transfer the service they can’t charge a cancellation fee.
I had a similar problem with Verizon when my brother died and I was trying to cancel his cell phone that was destroyed in the car in the accident. The first time I tried I had not opened Probate yet, so I understand why they wouldn’t shut it off even though I had a death certificate. Then I opened Probate and I went back to the store (because you can’t talk to customer service if you can’t log into an account) and because we were fully in Covid at the time they were trying to tell people entering the store that they had to go online and log into their account and make an appointment to get service. Because I could not do that they helped me. But it took me two months after his death to get the phone shut off, and when I did finally get it shut off I explained to them that I would not be paying any bill between the day I reported his death to them and the day they finally shut it off for me.
(Edited because I I referenced “they” when I meant Verizon. It now says Verizon.)
Yeah I think there’s a term for it, “dark patterns” or maybe that’s just when they hide the ways to cancel, you know like if you cancel online and you have to click yes I’m sure I want to cancel five times even though it looks like you’re all set. It’s a complete turn off though, hopefully I’ll never have to do business with Xfinity or Verizon ever again.
Capitalist advocates routinely defend the system under the guise it is "a free market." But as this article — and the realities of our everyday lives — show, it is not.
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production for the purpose of profit. When profit can be maximized through a market, capitalist will use them. When profit can be maximized through monopolistic and restricted business (as happened to Joshua with Verizon), capitalists will do so.
It's not free commerce that defines capitalism — it's profit, by any means necessary.
This hit hard: “It should not be too much to ask for autonomy, for respect, for real freedom from being lorded over and controlled. But under this current system that is apparently much too much to ask.”
Now imagine being a woman in need of an abortion in the U.S. 🙃
Unfortunately this story is similar to the health insurance debacle I dealt with while pregnant. Basically my coverage kept going away and I kept calling around to like 10 different numbers cause everyone kept wanting to tell me the problem was elsewhere but no one wanted to solve the problem. Seemed very intentional. Basically by the time I gave birth, after dealing with this for 3-4 months calling every week, I still didn’t know if I had coverage. It seemed like retribution because I was paying out of pocket at a birth center rather than going the hospital route.
Great article! Also check out Matt Stoller’s Substack BIG, yall. It is great rundown on new antitrust efforts.
Scary it’s everywhere. This kind of monopoly is also happening in medical care, like an open secret, behind the scenes. They call it vertical consolidation and it’s very intentional. Aetna/CVS,United/Optum,Blue Cross/Walgreens (and couple more key players) are doing our insurance, our pharmacy benefits and now they are hiring docs/NPs to give us care. Other practices, or your old doc, most likely “out of network”.
United employs 10% of US physicians- and that should scare you. How do you like the idea of your doctor working for your insurance company? As often as I have to advocate for my patients against their insurer, I would be powerless to advocate for what they need (meds or procedures, I mean) if their insurer was my employer
Anyway, my little economic niche is largely hidden from patients (or “subscribers” as they call us) and needs to be illuminated by writers like Joshua.
And it zaps all your energy for days at a time! This reminds me of a pleasant experience I had today, which was such a breath of fresh air from my countless similar experiences to yours. I am trying to cut down on subscriptions, and while I love this matcha I’ve been drinking, it is superfluous. I cancelled via chat and it was so easy because I talked with a real representative at a smaller company. I was shocked I didn’t have to explain myself, whereas every purchase you make now either asks you to create an account for their website or explain your decision for no longer using their product.
I was thrilled to see the topic of this piece, because I’m currently attempting to write a novel centered around this type of experience - which is challenging, as it doesn’t lend itself to narrative very easily. As I read on, I became frustrated by how effortless you’ve made it look to say so much of what I’m trying to say. I’m kicking myself for my choice of style/medium. In other words, I liked related to this so much I got jealous. Welp... back to writing my thing! 😅
not just companies we purchase goods/services from. try cancelling charitable donations to some large organizations! A year ago my husband was temporarily laid off, and we had to eliminate all the "extras" like streaming services and charitable giving, it took me two days and three different people to cancel my monthly donation to OxFam, except, it wasn't actually cancelled. To this day I'm still paying $20 a month to them. It was such a hassel and they do good work, that I never tried to go back and fix it. And ultimately my husband got his job back.
Oh yes, I had this problem, too! And with more than one nonprofit! Several weeks of emails back and forth to find out how to stop autodrafting donations to one of them because a third-party entity handles the processing, but I had to go through several different layers of internal people to get to that point and then handed off to the third-party processor via email, too. It's madness! They are quick and easy when setting up a recurring donation, but anything but quick and easy to stop it.
We had a similar problem with Verizon a few years ago when we bought an iPad and tried to set up cellular service. They were billing us monthly, but also said ‘we were not customers, and had no account.’ We couldn’t access customer service. They also told us simultaneously that ‘our SIM card was sent in the mail, and their records indicate that we received it’ and also that ‘that iPad uses a digital SIM card.’ We eventually were able to message Verizon on Twitter and they fixed our account and told us to get a SIM at a local store. I fear using Verizon for something really important like home internet.
I also want to thank you for mentioning this about Verizon. My husband and I have been fed up with our internet provider (Astound) since we have to call every 6 months about the bill since they will boost our rate to some really high rate and we have to call to complain and somehow get it down every 6 months. It’s gotten worse in recent years so we’ve though of going to Verizon but now we know to avoid it. Unfortunately hearing this along with my family’s experiences with American corporations in recent years is what is leading us to hopefully move our little family to Europe this year. We’re too exhausted and fed up with it all.
We’re ok with our wireless provider (we are locked in on a good rate at t-mobile). It’s just the internet providers that are a current problem for us. Thanks though.
I thought I was the only one who had these types of problems. I never aired my frustration though, so thank you! I truly believe it’s deliberate.
Oh 100%! That FTC proposed rule about click to cancel really shows (if you feel like looking into it) how widespread this extremely frustrating approach is. Not to mention the bigger trap of it all.
Things like this along with price gouging, accelerated planned obsolescence, etc., all add up to an unhappy customer. And voter turnout.
Sure but who do we vote for that won’t allow corporations to price gouge us? There are a whole bunch of states in the US that have laws prohibiting price gouging during a state of emergency yet the department of Justice did not care to enforce any of those laws at any point in the past few years. We were in a state of emergency from March 2020 until what April 2023? No government state or federal, dem or red hat, did anything about it.
I saw some thing on the Internet recently that said if you are not able to just click to cancel, if you change your address on your account to California they have to let you cancel online if they let you sign up online. I don’t live in a state that has any real consumer protection laws, but California does
Oooooh, I feel this rage all the time still as I try to 100% disentangle myself from the tentacles of the far-reaching U.S. If I went into all the nightmarish, time-wasting instances of trying to escape the traps corporations laid, I'd still be talking about it on my death bed, and it's been getting so much worse over the years. I've had to cancel debit and credit cards so many times just to get the damn bills to stop, and I've had to pay hundreds of dollars in other people's utilities when an electric or other utility company either failed to process a cancellation or made it too difficult to do so that I gave up and the landlord or new owner didn't get the bill switched over to themselves in a timely manner.
As an immigrant in Europe for 10 months now, I can look back and see that literally everything about the U.S. is geared to our enslavement. It takes getting away from the enslaver to really see your life for what it was: the life of a rat in a cage. It is not normal! People in other countries do not live like this and would never accept things Americans have taken as just the way it is.
Yeah back in my 20s and 30s I was super hyper about keeping my credit score good because it was destroyed before I entered adulthood because I had bad parents. But now at 50? Nah I am not paying bills that don’t belong to me. Let them sue me. They can’t get anything from a disabled woman living off SSDI
how did you do it? get to europe? i’m not researching it right because i’ve gotten the impression that it’s not easy to move and that you have to have a skill the country is in need of. is that right? and what were the actual moving costs or did you just go with whatever would fit into a suitcase! 😂 if that’s the way to do it, then ok!
I've written a couple of articles here on Substack that I think would answer your questions and more. But the tl;dr is we determined the criteria we were looking for in a new country, researched a ton about several different countries and narrowed it down to Portugal, did all the preparation for immigrating there, and took only what we could fit in our suitcases and started a new life here. There are many different paths and visa types that can make moving possible for almost anyone. It really comes down to how much of your current lifestyle are you willing to give up or change to embark on a likely better one. It hasn't come without bumps in the road, but it's been so worth it!
https://open.substack.com/pub/jdgoulet/p/the-american-diaspora
https://jdgoulet.substack.com/p/naysayers-gonna-naysay
thank you for your help! i absolutely would be willing to pack a suitcase and go. it’s just stuff and stuff is replaceable.
Yes, I have my partner and my son with me here, and that's all that matters in the end.
I feel this so much. Good on you for leaving. I’m hoping that our little family can move to Europe as well sometime this year. I really miss living abroad. Living in America is just too damn much.
I agree that things are hard to cancel but also the point about monopolies is spot on. The cost of making eyeglasses is far less than the price charged. I was looking this up recently. Someone said they charge high on prices because they can. 😣
Whenever I need glasses I just try them on in the glasses store and pick the ones I want, then I go online and order them. The frames and the thin lenses and whatever other upgrades I wanted would have made them $500 in the store. I paid less than $200 on line. And this place will sell you replacement lenses, so when my prescription changes I just have to send them the new prescription and order the lenses and I can pop them in myself.
The first time my oldest kid tried to get their glasses online, they saw an optometrist for the prescription, but when they asked the person working in the eyeglass area for their pupil distance (something that's needed when ordering online, I guess), she said she wasn't allowed to give that information out. These businesses have made it so you are prevented from getting the info needed to purchase glasses online and so trap you into buying massively overpriced pairs from them.
Here in Portugal, you can walk into an optician, get a free eye exam, and get a complete set of quality, fashionable glasses with lenses for a fraction of the cost in the U.S. Dental is massively more affordable here, too, even with no insurance. And it's modern, high-quality, and compassionate care.
I had my last exam at Visionworks, it’s just one of those chains that they put in strip malls. When I asked them for the pupillary distance they made me sign a waiver acknowledging that they’re giving me this information but they’re not guaranteeing it’s correct. It was fine, but I was like really? I thought you were a professional and I paid you for an exam 🤷🏻♀️ and of course Visionworks sells glasses so of course they didn’t really want me to have it. But they did give it to me.
I need glasses that are like bifocals but without a line. I don’t think I could order them online. If anyone has had success with this type of glasses online let me know.
This is who I ordered from because they had the same exact brand and style of frames that I picked up in the glasses store. I think they can do progressives, but just make sure you get your “pupillary distance” from the eye doctor. They don’t put that on your regular prescription and the online folks need it.
https://lensesrx.com/
You can get progressive lenses from warby Parker, I'm sure the other online retailers offer them as well.
Those are called progressive lens and have been common place for at least 2 decades now. I bet they are easy to order online also. Worth trying.
Costco is now our family's go-to for [relatively] inexpensive glasses.
I can't believe I'm reading this. Because it's impossible for me to log in or reach a representative, I've been paying for Verizon service at an apartment I don't live in for six months. Can you imagine being one of the executives who actually devises such a plan for increasing revenue?
It was so hard to even find out how to cancel. Hell first it was hard to even log on to their terrible portal. The chat bot on their website was what we used, and hopefully it works at least sometimes? I don't even know. Tell the bank to stop paying at least worked with Blink
We should hold an award ceremony for most horrible UI across utilities, cell phone, and Internet/cable websites. AT&T has got to be among the frontrunners for 1st place. I am certain their UI is so bad on purpose. I can't imagine it being so bad from mere ignorance.
I’m almost embarrassed by how long I’ve continued to pay my old gym that’s two hours away from where I live now. Remembering that this is a systemic issue and not just my own executive function problem may actually help me get it done.
Not your overall point, I know, but I thank you anyway. It’s funny how I’ll put up with feeling like an individual chump, but show me how it’s a systems problem and I’m so much more motivated to advocate for myself.
The key is if you have a cancellation fee you just have to lie and tell them you are moving to an area where they don’t provide service. For example, I live in New Hampshire and I recently spent about a half hour on the phone canceling my Xfinity Internet. I didn’t have a cancellation fee but if I did I was going to tell them I was moving and I was going to give them my old address in California because I know they don’t service California. And if they can’t provide you service at your new address and you are unable to transfer the service they can’t charge a cancellation fee.
I had a similar problem with Verizon when my brother died and I was trying to cancel his cell phone that was destroyed in the car in the accident. The first time I tried I had not opened Probate yet, so I understand why they wouldn’t shut it off even though I had a death certificate. Then I opened Probate and I went back to the store (because you can’t talk to customer service if you can’t log into an account) and because we were fully in Covid at the time they were trying to tell people entering the store that they had to go online and log into their account and make an appointment to get service. Because I could not do that they helped me. But it took me two months after his death to get the phone shut off, and when I did finally get it shut off I explained to them that I would not be paying any bill between the day I reported his death to them and the day they finally shut it off for me.
(Edited because I I referenced “they” when I meant Verizon. It now says Verizon.)
This is morally reprehensible behavior on the part of whichever corporate entity designed the process!
Yeah I think there’s a term for it, “dark patterns” or maybe that’s just when they hide the ways to cancel, you know like if you cancel online and you have to click yes I’m sure I want to cancel five times even though it looks like you’re all set. It’s a complete turn off though, hopefully I’ll never have to do business with Xfinity or Verizon ever again.
Capitalist advocates routinely defend the system under the guise it is "a free market." But as this article — and the realities of our everyday lives — show, it is not.
Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production for the purpose of profit. When profit can be maximized through a market, capitalist will use them. When profit can be maximized through monopolistic and restricted business (as happened to Joshua with Verizon), capitalists will do so.
It's not free commerce that defines capitalism — it's profit, by any means necessary.
This hit hard: “It should not be too much to ask for autonomy, for respect, for real freedom from being lorded over and controlled. But under this current system that is apparently much too much to ask.”
Now imagine being a woman in need of an abortion in the U.S. 🙃
Unfortunately this story is similar to the health insurance debacle I dealt with while pregnant. Basically my coverage kept going away and I kept calling around to like 10 different numbers cause everyone kept wanting to tell me the problem was elsewhere but no one wanted to solve the problem. Seemed very intentional. Basically by the time I gave birth, after dealing with this for 3-4 months calling every week, I still didn’t know if I had coverage. It seemed like retribution because I was paying out of pocket at a birth center rather than going the hospital route.
How frustrating!🥲
It definitely was.
Great article! Also check out Matt Stoller’s Substack BIG, yall. It is great rundown on new antitrust efforts.
Scary it’s everywhere. This kind of monopoly is also happening in medical care, like an open secret, behind the scenes. They call it vertical consolidation and it’s very intentional. Aetna/CVS,United/Optum,Blue Cross/Walgreens (and couple more key players) are doing our insurance, our pharmacy benefits and now they are hiring docs/NPs to give us care. Other practices, or your old doc, most likely “out of network”.
United employs 10% of US physicians- and that should scare you. How do you like the idea of your doctor working for your insurance company? As often as I have to advocate for my patients against their insurer, I would be powerless to advocate for what they need (meds or procedures, I mean) if their insurer was my employer
Anyway, my little economic niche is largely hidden from patients (or “subscribers” as they call us) and needs to be illuminated by writers like Joshua.
Thank you.
And it zaps all your energy for days at a time! This reminds me of a pleasant experience I had today, which was such a breath of fresh air from my countless similar experiences to yours. I am trying to cut down on subscriptions, and while I love this matcha I’ve been drinking, it is superfluous. I cancelled via chat and it was so easy because I talked with a real representative at a smaller company. I was shocked I didn’t have to explain myself, whereas every purchase you make now either asks you to create an account for their website or explain your decision for no longer using their product.
I was thrilled to see the topic of this piece, because I’m currently attempting to write a novel centered around this type of experience - which is challenging, as it doesn’t lend itself to narrative very easily. As I read on, I became frustrated by how effortless you’ve made it look to say so much of what I’m trying to say. I’m kicking myself for my choice of style/medium. In other words, I liked related to this so much I got jealous. Welp... back to writing my thing! 😅
not just companies we purchase goods/services from. try cancelling charitable donations to some large organizations! A year ago my husband was temporarily laid off, and we had to eliminate all the "extras" like streaming services and charitable giving, it took me two days and three different people to cancel my monthly donation to OxFam, except, it wasn't actually cancelled. To this day I'm still paying $20 a month to them. It was such a hassel and they do good work, that I never tried to go back and fix it. And ultimately my husband got his job back.
Oh yes, I had this problem, too! And with more than one nonprofit! Several weeks of emails back and forth to find out how to stop autodrafting donations to one of them because a third-party entity handles the processing, but I had to go through several different layers of internal people to get to that point and then handed off to the third-party processor via email, too. It's madness! They are quick and easy when setting up a recurring donation, but anything but quick and easy to stop it.
We had a similar problem with Verizon a few years ago when we bought an iPad and tried to set up cellular service. They were billing us monthly, but also said ‘we were not customers, and had no account.’ We couldn’t access customer service. They also told us simultaneously that ‘our SIM card was sent in the mail, and their records indicate that we received it’ and also that ‘that iPad uses a digital SIM card.’ We eventually were able to message Verizon on Twitter and they fixed our account and told us to get a SIM at a local store. I fear using Verizon for something really important like home internet.
I also want to thank you for mentioning this about Verizon. My husband and I have been fed up with our internet provider (Astound) since we have to call every 6 months about the bill since they will boost our rate to some really high rate and we have to call to complain and somehow get it down every 6 months. It’s gotten worse in recent years so we’ve though of going to Verizon but now we know to avoid it. Unfortunately hearing this along with my family’s experiences with American corporations in recent years is what is leading us to hopefully move our little family to Europe this year. We’re too exhausted and fed up with it all.
Check out Credo Wireless! We moved our cellphone accounts there from Verizon. Much better.
We’re ok with our wireless provider (we are locked in on a good rate at t-mobile). It’s just the internet providers that are a current problem for us. Thanks though.
PSA: Don't come to the UK. Same here.
For sure. We’re not even considering the UK.
Verizon has acquired TracFone.
Verizon has started to no longer service and support TracFone accounts and customers.
1st this, then something else, hours on the phone afterchat bots, as Verizon runs out their 1 year clock.
Verizon told Congress, 'We'll continue to service the TracFone accounts...'
'wink, wink, ubetcha'(Sarah Palin)