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Bob Hoyng's avatar

I agree with everything in the article. I just don't see what community organizing does here. I'm not being nihilist, but when your community either knows this is wrong and is already on the right side of it, or is brainwashed and happily complicit, no amount of community organizing or structure is going to change anything. It's nice to say things like that...it feels like we're really doing something, putting together support networks, etc., and that is *important* work that should continue.

But it won't stop any of this. Not in this country, not with our society.

The only thing that stops this is opting out. Organizing work strikes. Pulling the plug on money flowing to companies like ABC and being *loud* about it. Full-on tanking the country's economy by doing the only thing fascists can't stop you from doing - not spending.

This has been my refrain since January 20th. Unless people are willing to experience discomfort and give up anything that's unnecessary, and by doing so put real economic pressure on the government, no amount of community unity will turn this tide. The administration does...not...care. They have their base - 30-35% of the country that actually *wants* authoritarianism, if it's Trump delivering it. They don't need to convince the rest of the country, because by the time they're done, the rest of the country won't have a voice.

But we have a *choice*. Every dollar you spend on something you don't need is a dollar you're putting into the pocket of a system that wants to silence you. And while strikes are more difficult - we all need money to survive - they can be organized in such a way as to minimize the damage to people's lives and livelihoods. While I think their list of goals is far too expansive for the moment, anyone that's trying to organize a strike is an ally right now - check out generalstrikeus.com. Their goals are...scattered...but their purpose - getting 3.5% of the country to strike at the same time - is the type of action we need to be taking right now.

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Nate Adams's avatar

Community organizing builds the network of bottom-up institutional power that allows workers and renters to go on strike. The Red Scare taught us union leadership won’t stick their heads out to protect their staff and avoid breaking ever-increasingly restrictive labor strike laws.

Only through bottom-up organization can unions be controlled by their membership towards a general strike, and that starts with people like you and me coalescing our own neighbors and coworkers.

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Bob Hoyng's avatar

I don't disagree with any of that. But by the time those networks are built, they won't matter anymore. I'm not saying that those things shouldn't happen. They absolutely should. I'm just saying they won't be sufficient to stop what's happening, not now, and not here. They're important - not just for Trump, but just in general - but they're not going to move the short-term needle.

In two days, we're going to be 8 months into a 4 year term. There are masked agents in the street, funded now by enough money to throw minimum $50k starting salaries (up to around $90k), with signing bonuses in the $45-50k range for new hires. Television programs are being shut down because the president doesn't like what they say. The department of justice is investigating people for the crime of not saying the 2020 election was rigged. I could go on...and on...but you're reading this, so you know all of it. We're beyond the point at which community organizing moves the needle with this.

I just want to stress one last time - I'm not questioning the value of community organizing, nor whether it has a role to play right now. I'm just saying that any solution that stops there isn't enough. We need to take radical economic action now, because tanking the economy is about the only peaceful means available of putting a stop to what's happening right now. Trump's supporters want an authoritarian - but only if it's one that makes things cheap and makes sure their jobs and/or entitlements keep flowing in. The economy tanks, a lot of those people move on, and if a lot of those people move on, Congressional Republicans might just grow a spine.

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Haven's avatar

I would argue that the things you just listed is a form of community organizing. Getting people to boycott spending money at a place still requires some amount of communication with people to make it impactful. One person deciding not to spend money doesn't amount to much, but getting more people onboard with your stance and boycotting will, and that's still a community that is needed. Also unionizing and striking is a form of organizing in a community to leverage worker power. Community isn't just volunteer work at a non-profit, but it can also be things like connecting with people in an environment where right-wing media wants to make you fear the other. The more people support each other, either in unions, organizing boycotts, connecting with a community, the less powerful these people become because they can't sow fear and ride that to success as easily anymore.

Also, it's not like you have to wait to build a network to get things done. There are already many grassroots movements that have been trying to make a change, and right now bolstering the existing networks is really important. Individual actions can only do so much, especially cause most of us aren't public figures, but collective activism and getting involved with existing movements can help. No one person or action created progress in history. It has always been the work of thousands of people either working together or in their own ways to push for a better future. To be really cliche about it: Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Bob Hoyng's avatar

Rome wasn't built in a day is absolutely true. My worry is we don't have the time to build Rome right now. Maybe I'm just missing it, but I'm not seeing widespread grassroots movements for boycotts or strikes either one right now. I see people organizing to protest, to protect people from ICE, to deal with the fallout from the holes springing up in our social safety net, but drastic economic action is light.

There are grassroots movements, and they all do good work at the things they do. They aren't built for this moment because frankly very few people saw this moment coming early enough to build the type of community structures to respond to this. Every level of the system has either failed to meet the moment, or lacks the force to stop things. The courts have been solid...and even not completely awful, just mostly awful...at the Supreme Court level. That doesn't matter though when the government just does the illegal things anyway.

Personally, I live in deep red Ohio. Pretty much everyone I know...at worst they're slightly uncomfortable, "but at least things are cheaper now". Most of them are being drawn further and further into the rhetoric. If an organization exists right now, and isn't specifically oriented toward important community service, they need to reorient toward grinding everything to a halt. The organizations I've been involved with around here...that's not the focus, and my voice wasn't changing that.

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Haven's avatar

I would look into orgs like DSA in your area or state. I know in a red state like Ohio, it can feel isolating, but just as much as an org has to work to outreach, sometimes it takes effort from our side to find where they are, too. My friend is a member of DSA and I am also one and we're both in different cities. My DSA chapter leaders are constantly doing activism work like connecting with politicians and lawmakers at the state level, not just city. But I know my chapter actively keeps people up to date with local politics and lets people know where and when they can contact local politicians about certain measures to be voted on by committees. My chapter also has direct contact with a couple lawmakers in our state and work with them on a regular basis along with lawyers who are finding ways to continue to fight for people's rights.

Another example is someone like Zohran who is a DSA member that is running for NYC mayor, but it took a lot of effort on the ground to make that happen. My friend has been out canvassing for him to help. No org is ever going to be perfect in trying to fight fascist regime, but giving up at this point isn't an option, I think. And discounting the effort grassroot orgs like DSA and ACLU are putting in can't be discredited either.

Also the current state of politics didn't just occur in a short period of time. It's been decades of people being apathetic to rightwing ideology that has become increasingly more concerning in the last 5 or so years and this more far-rightwing ideology being pushed to become more normalized by those that are supporting it and those that keep claiming progressive policies like making education and housing affordable in meaningful ways are too radical.

I would also argue that the generally people might've not seen it coming because they really really hoped it wouldn't and mainstream media (mainly owned by billionaires at this point) isn't great at reporting on it because private news companies often are just saying enough look "progressive" on the surface but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone calling for action or saying that "hey maybe unions are good, actually." For people who are more tapped into political discourse in online spaces, studies and polls, and with the history of politics in America, the writing has been on the wall for years.

I know with the current state of American politics, it feels like shit. I feel angry and upset that it has gotten to this point, just as I'm sure you are too. It's completely reasonable to feel this way given everything that has happened. I don't know if I can really change your mind about this organizing thing, but the least I can do is tell you that there are people trying to resist and make change, even if it's not being reported on.

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Bob Hoyng's avatar

I'm 100% in on organizing. I've done things with Indivisible as much as my one car and crazy work schedule allows, but DSA seems like it might be a better spot.

My issue is that most center or broad organizations seem to be either issue focused, or just very laid back, and most left-leaning organizations get into the cornucopia of issues. And they're mostly issues I could get behind, but it feels like they're all arguing about which lamp goes with the furniture in the middle of a house fire.

You're absolutely right on the politics. I've seen the shift in my own family for almost two decades now. It honestly really kicked in when the American people committed the unforgivable sin of electing a black man as president. After that, most of the people in my community started a gradual descent into complete insanity. But it's done nothing but accelerate.

I'll definitely try to get to a DSA meeting locally, see if their hair's as on fire as it should be, and if not give it a shot at getting it that way. The frustrating part for me is that boycotts by themselves really don't take *doing* anything...it's just choosing to not do something. And it's clear from economic numbers that that's not happening. I ran the numbers, assuming that the average Harris voter was equivalent in spending to the average household. If every Harris voter cut out all non-essential spending...not striking, not going hungry, just not buying shit...the economic downturn would be slightly larger than what we had from COVID or 2008. That's where we *should* be right now, and it's just not happening.

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Robin Mulvihill's avatar

Yes - this is hyper-capital at work, they’re tied to the markets as much as their supporters (for now, at least).

When Japan and Canada mentioned they might undo their bond holdings, a chill went down Wall Street and up whatever holds up Trump’s bejowled neck.

Just don’t do business with them and withhold labour strategically or en masse if required.

The fact these firms and moguls console themselves that they can play nice as he’s only got a few years is as dumb as it is cowardly. The opposite stance is preferable if you know it won’t last, you also come through intact and with some sense of knowing you didn’t completely sell-out.

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Mina's avatar

Crazy times we’re living in, what happened to this free speech they’re always lauding to? What Kimmel said was absolutely correct. The alleged shooter was of their own creation. From their vitriolic rhetoric they have incited a violence we have yet to see in its entirety.

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T. E. Culbert's avatar

First they came for Colbert and I said nothing … then they came for Kimmel… you get the gist.

Well written essay. There is a dark ugliness in the American political psyche and I am truly afraid it will remain as such for a few more years yet. What do you imagine will change if Trump kicks the bucket and snake eyes takes over the presidency?

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Rainer's avatar

It's getting worse and worse.

Perhaps there will be no more elections at all.

And don't say that's doom and gloom. I think many people have not yet recognized the seriousness of the situation.

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Raymond Kalberg's avatar

Corruption starts at the top.

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jamenta's avatar

"All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force."

~George Orwell

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Dean F's avatar

In this situation where there is no majority consensus around What Is To Be Done in the form of mass resistance other than increasingly loud arguing, I would advocate for everyone to sit in silent contemplation in addition to a general strike.

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Stay Slick's avatar

Absolutely. And there's more; what's coming is the TIVE designation, for Trans-Ideology Inspired Violent Extremists. Gun bans for trans people have been mentioned as well.

We're witnessing the manufacturing of an enemy in real time.

https://open.substack.com/pub/heyslick/p/the-martyr-and-the-mad-charlie-kirk

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Jonathan Benge's avatar

You mentioned “orgs that fund democrats” but not “unions” 🫠 - democrats got you in this mess. All you’ve got is unions and that’s what they’ll come for next. I am not joking, unionisation is your only hope.

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Jonathan Benge's avatar

Oh shit, sorry I just read it again. Are you still a liberal!? You can’t see that liberalism delivered fascism by refusing to confront the reality of capital?

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Jonathan Benge's avatar

Ok and the last bit got me confused too, “the members of the so called opposition not opposing”. Friend it’s not real. They cannot oppose whilst working with capital. That’s why it’s a problem the merger of state and capital. I don’t know how to make the clearer. The dems cannot oppose fascism because they are beholden to capital. It really is that simple and anything they say otherwise is gaslighting.

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WomenWarriors's avatar

THE TRAITORS LIST – WE NEED TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE

https://womenwarriors.substack.com/p/the-traitors-list-we-need-to-know

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Karen Effie's avatar

https://darktimesacademy.co.nz/ short courses on how to think about climate disaster, disinformation etc. I’m doing one now

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Karen Effie's avatar

Community organizing stops us Obeying In Advance

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Kevin Flynn's avatar

Ah. Well. Anyone who is somewhat smart, reasonable intellectually curious that didn’t see some form of this coming must have had their head I the sand.

My “course” examines the root causes of this type of phenomenon and offers up a concrete set of solutions which are designed to try ti avoid it.

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