When I learned — only yesterday — about the dangerous fascists visiting and disrupting Springfield, I wondered why Kamala Harris didn’t use time in the debate to tell the real story of Springfield. What a lost opportunity to help people understand exactly what you’re saying here.
This whole approach of trying to stay to the right of center is, I agree, a BIG MISTAKE.
Since Vance and Trump are demonstrably lying in order to make people hate the immigrants in Springfield and to move to violence against them, why are they not arrested for hate speech?🎤
Because, unfortunately, hate speech is not illegal. This is just one of the many ways haters hide behind the 1st amendment. What we, as a country need to do about this is to realize that the 1st amendment has never been enforced universally. There have always been caveats, and it is up to us to hold the courts accountable for how, when, and for whom, they declare certain types of speech unprotected. Those who champion "free speech" at all costs are relying on a perception of the 1st amendment that has never been true, and as can be proven by looking to other countries that do prosecute hate speech, the slippery slope we are supposed to be terrified of really isn't a thing.
That will be horribly misused. Our government has already become very draconian, as we know. Pacifist protesters against nuclear war doing silent protests outside a military base have been put into prison for years by the commander of the base using a restraining order method. Do we really want to lose our right to protest? At a time like this? Many will happily utilize any laws against speech for that purpose. So this cure will be worse than the disease.
I unfortunately don't remember which episode I'm thinking of, but the 5-4 podcast has a few excellent episodes about cases involving the 1st amendment. If you're interested in checking it out: https://www.fivefourpod.com/
We already have limitations, as evidenced by your comment. Changing what those limitations are don't automatically endanger the right to protest. As we have seen from the recent past, especially regarding pro-Palestine protests, the powers that be already have the ability to shut down effective protest whenever they feel so inclined. As I said on my first comment, the 1st ammendment has never, in its history, been applied consistently or eqitably. It's up to us, the public to push back regarding in what ways "free speech" is restricted, because it already is, and always will be. Instead of believing the oppressive scare tactics about how illegalzing hate speech would erode 1st amendment protections, we need to be more influential regarding what limitations are considered proper and which are not.
In a civilized country, hate speech — as the group-defamation that it is — would not only be actionable civilly, but it would be punishable criminally, as Incitement of Hatred. Incitement of Hatred has failed to be made illegal in the US, despite the fact that it IS illegal in more civilized countries.
That being said, INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE is illegal in the US, and the psychopaths SHOULD be prosecuted.
Biden's DOJ has been wilfully impotent, at every turn, when it comes to prosecuting Trump's crimes.
As for Biden, himself: When it comes to white-supremacists' racist hatred, Biden is on THEIR side, not ours.
If the US imperialist machine stopped meddling and stealing resources and facilitating coups and civil wars in countries that don’t obey the Almighty West, we wouldn’t see migrants fleeing their homes. We need to attack the source of the problem. This is NOT a partisan issue. Both parties are corrupt and racist. Sick and tired of hearing about Trump.
History has shown that immigration is good for the economy and economic decline follows extremely restricted immigration.
The fact that people believe that the economic decline of the last several decades is due to high levels of immigration and not the restrictions of same shows how poorly informed of the facts are the masses.
My grandparents fled to the US from Russia because of the pogroms. My family, while suffering the standard level of antisemitism in the US, was so much safer here. Everybody else who comes here deserves that, too. That we, as a nation, allow this level of hate speech and incitement to remain legal is a travesty.
I really don't understand why Vance and the dumpster are allowed to keep stoking this when they've been told it was false which they already knew. They should be arrested immediately for hate speech and incitement of violence as well as anything else we can possibly throw at them to make an example that this will not be tolerated!
Bringing truth and light to the lies of fascists doesn't "make them see reason". Fascism is violently opposed until it breaks. The good news is that these American Fascists are possibly the most cowardly, pampered assemblage of fascists ever. They weren't in the trenches of WW1; they've always had the protection of the state behind them; they've faced very little struggle in life. These neo silver shirts will crumble when real force is applied. Be mindful that they still are protected by local police, and the apparatus that comes with them. But, they will collapse when faced with actual force.
The ideas for action in defense of innocents in this article are great, but I don't think they go nearly far enough. We need to organize a movement to physically turn out where people are threatened, to oppose fascist mobs with sheer numbers whenever and wherever they show up.
We can't just rely on the media to solve things by printing stories of the reality of immigration. Those who most need to hear such stories won't read them anyway. We need to physically show up and stop fascism when is threatens violence. Anything less will be no better than “thoughts and prayers” after hearing about people being hurt and killed.
As always, thank you for the concise, clear-eyed analysis Joshua.
The present moment makes it more clear than ever that empire is at the heart of xenophobia and the root of violence throughout the world. With Trump’s outright conspiratorial racist language and Harris’ backing of a draconian border bill, voting will not solve this crisis. Only organizing to build a better world will.
Ps: This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote - you can decide for yourself if ‘damage control’ is a valid response to the present moment)
When I learned — only yesterday — about the dangerous fascists visiting and disrupting Springfield, I wondered why Kamala Harris didn’t use time in the debate to tell the real story of Springfield. What a lost opportunity to help people understand exactly what you’re saying here.
This whole approach of trying to stay to the right of center is, I agree, a BIG MISTAKE.
Thanks for your writing.
Yes, yes, yes!
Since Vance and Trump are demonstrably lying in order to make people hate the immigrants in Springfield and to move to violence against them, why are they not arrested for hate speech?🎤
Because, unfortunately, hate speech is not illegal. This is just one of the many ways haters hide behind the 1st amendment. What we, as a country need to do about this is to realize that the 1st amendment has never been enforced universally. There have always been caveats, and it is up to us to hold the courts accountable for how, when, and for whom, they declare certain types of speech unprotected. Those who champion "free speech" at all costs are relying on a perception of the 1st amendment that has never been true, and as can be proven by looking to other countries that do prosecute hate speech, the slippery slope we are supposed to be terrified of really isn't a thing.
That will be horribly misused. Our government has already become very draconian, as we know. Pacifist protesters against nuclear war doing silent protests outside a military base have been put into prison for years by the commander of the base using a restraining order method. Do we really want to lose our right to protest? At a time like this? Many will happily utilize any laws against speech for that purpose. So this cure will be worse than the disease.
I unfortunately don't remember which episode I'm thinking of, but the 5-4 podcast has a few excellent episodes about cases involving the 1st amendment. If you're interested in checking it out: https://www.fivefourpod.com/
thanks!
We already have limitations, as evidenced by your comment. Changing what those limitations are don't automatically endanger the right to protest. As we have seen from the recent past, especially regarding pro-Palestine protests, the powers that be already have the ability to shut down effective protest whenever they feel so inclined. As I said on my first comment, the 1st ammendment has never, in its history, been applied consistently or eqitably. It's up to us, the public to push back regarding in what ways "free speech" is restricted, because it already is, and always will be. Instead of believing the oppressive scare tactics about how illegalzing hate speech would erode 1st amendment protections, we need to be more influential regarding what limitations are considered proper and which are not.
The US government isn’t shutting down pro-Palestinian protests whenever they feel so inclined.
There’s no law against hate speech whatsoever. I don’t know about incitement, though.
In a civilized country, hate speech — as the group-defamation that it is — would not only be actionable civilly, but it would be punishable criminally, as Incitement of Hatred. Incitement of Hatred has failed to be made illegal in the US, despite the fact that it IS illegal in more civilized countries.
That being said, INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE is illegal in the US, and the psychopaths SHOULD be prosecuted.
Biden's DOJ has been wilfully impotent, at every turn, when it comes to prosecuting Trump's crimes.
As for Biden, himself: When it comes to white-supremacists' racist hatred, Biden is on THEIR side, not ours.
If the US imperialist machine stopped meddling and stealing resources and facilitating coups and civil wars in countries that don’t obey the Almighty West, we wouldn’t see migrants fleeing their homes. We need to attack the source of the problem. This is NOT a partisan issue. Both parties are corrupt and racist. Sick and tired of hearing about Trump.
History has shown that immigration is good for the economy and economic decline follows extremely restricted immigration.
The fact that people believe that the economic decline of the last several decades is due to high levels of immigration and not the restrictions of same shows how poorly informed of the facts are the masses.
My grandparents fled to the US from Russia because of the pogroms. My family, while suffering the standard level of antisemitism in the US, was so much safer here. Everybody else who comes here deserves that, too. That we, as a nation, allow this level of hate speech and incitement to remain legal is a travesty.
I really don't understand why Vance and the dumpster are allowed to keep stoking this when they've been told it was false which they already knew. They should be arrested immediately for hate speech and incitement of violence as well as anything else we can possibly throw at them to make an example that this will not be tolerated!
Thank you so much for this. So well written and exactly correct at likening this to the pograms of the past.
Bringing truth and light to the lies of fascists doesn't "make them see reason". Fascism is violently opposed until it breaks. The good news is that these American Fascists are possibly the most cowardly, pampered assemblage of fascists ever. They weren't in the trenches of WW1; they've always had the protection of the state behind them; they've faced very little struggle in life. These neo silver shirts will crumble when real force is applied. Be mindful that they still are protected by local police, and the apparatus that comes with them. But, they will collapse when faced with actual force.
Exactly. But they must experience a forceful opposition, as standing by and watching from afar only enables them.
the republiKKKan party and the police KKKorps are returning to their traditions
The ideas for action in defense of innocents in this article are great, but I don't think they go nearly far enough. We need to organize a movement to physically turn out where people are threatened, to oppose fascist mobs with sheer numbers whenever and wherever they show up.
We can't just rely on the media to solve things by printing stories of the reality of immigration. Those who most need to hear such stories won't read them anyway. We need to physically show up and stop fascism when is threatens violence. Anything less will be no better than “thoughts and prayers” after hearing about people being hurt and killed.
I agree in parts. Capitalism is not to blame
As always, thank you for the concise, clear-eyed analysis Joshua.
The present moment makes it more clear than ever that empire is at the heart of xenophobia and the root of violence throughout the world. With Trump’s outright conspiratorial racist language and Harris’ backing of a draconian border bill, voting will not solve this crisis. Only organizing to build a better world will.
Ps: This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote - you can decide for yourself if ‘damage control’ is a valid response to the present moment)