What a different world it would be if men like you said to other men who talk like Butker, “I just don’t feel the need to tell anyone else how to live their life. I wonder why you do? Have you thought about that?” Because it comes from deep insecurity.
Wouldn't it be great if psychedelics really did reliably make people more progressive? Unfortunately, I think if you fed a Butker a bunch of mushrooms you'd just end up with Aaron Rodgers...
I know nothing about NFL football, aside from the fact that kickers are barely considered players unless they have a decent history of scoring. Not that his personal insecurities about his job excuse his revanchism or condescension. This is still a millionaire that was given an honor by the school and he chose to repay them by demeaning half of the graduating class and insulting the remainder by implying they wanted to hear his garbage.
That's part of what makes this extra gross from him - he *does* have a remarkable history of scoring. His nickname is "Buttkicker." It's unnecessary nastiness all the way down with this dude.
Yeah see, I don't get it then even in the tiniest way. Although it's fascinating to me that his mother followed in her father's legacy at Emory and his dad…works for a company that he(whiny kicker) and a friend started? Hmm.
What if you look at this way: He stood up there and made an ASS of himself, lol. He didn't really do anything TO anybody, he just said a big load of BS. Right? No woman out there (me included) has to do anything but laugh. He's still young. Maybe he'll figure it out. Maybe a woman will teach him! But regardless, think of it as a faucet dripping. You can try to FIX IT (not advised), or you can LEAVE. Nobody has to take him seriously.
Zackly. Makes me wonder what his mom is like! But, I get tired of all the sniping, too. I want more fun, so ... let's make fun of him. AND his mom, lol j/k.
The sexiest things I find in a man/partner is empathy, compassion and emotional support… people like Elon Musk and other men who talk nonstop about masculinity- I don’t know any woman that respects herself that finds that attractive. I’m a veteran, I make more money than my spouse, my child loves me like crazy and the tools in our house are mine (and pink)- I don’t have a spouse out of necessity or for some other nonsense about needing a man. I have a spouse because he’s amazing and I love him and he’s more secure in our marriage because I could do anything without him, but I don’t want to and choose him everyday. If he woke up and said “I wanna be a professional ping pong player and amateur dj” I’d be on canva creating business cards and browsing thrift stores for bedazzled jeans… you can’t have a “ride or die” if your method of companionship is oppression.
lol sure! I get rage rant when I watch that video so I’m surprised it’s even coherent to be honest. So much input from men on what women can, should, and shouldn’t want to be or want or live… laws on my body and opinions in my face constantly. Some men need art projects… and thicker helmet padding
Heh, I feel you sister! I'm exhausted/enraged all the damn time, and it's getting worse for women. I cannot even imagine what feminists over 50 must feel. Worse yet, I'm seeing quite a bit from Gen Z & A that wildly misplaces patriarchal and misogynistic ideals as "feminist choices", it's mind-boggling. Sigh...
Oh there’s this notion and maybe because women have surpassed men in education now, but it’s this idea that education and reading has brainwashed us? We need to elect someone to sit around and watch Fox News so we can at least find out what super weird and distorted ideas will be thrown out way next. We wont need birth control soon enough because the thought of a man will make our ovaries run and die
Regardless of the fact that it would be a medical miracle if I got pregnant for multiple reasons, I am definitely on the repulsion birth control plan. I've been gloriously single since I separated in 2017 from an 11 year marriage and I have not wanted to date at all!! I finally found peace and contentment, with a side helping of feminist anti-capitalist killjoy rage!! LOL
I do also have this wanting to peek behind the curtain feeling on Fox, but I cannot bring myself to watch whatever nonsense they're spewing, and I don't know if I could subject another woman to that mental and emotional torture. Fortunately Rachel Maddow does a good job!
Well, I took a 2 week mental break from my mother when, after I went with my veterans group down to the campus encampment to protest in support of Palestine and the BDS movement, she told me what was ACTUALLY happening. This woman who I grew up taking advice from, told me that CHINA, was behind the college protests and that myself and 15 other veterans of various ages, backgrounds and rank, were brainwashed through TikTok (I bet over half these guys have no idea what that is) by China to support a terrorist organization and China was paying for everything. 🤯🤷♀️😳 After asking if I send my gas receipt directly to China for reimbursement, I took a break from her. I love her, but the conspiracy theories and harmful information she spews and refuses to listen to anything else… I’m going to say that’s what’s behind the curtain and it needs an exorcism to cast those weird demons out.
Which is just crazy that no matter what age you are on this earth, if you are not a white man, the government and court actively worked against you and instead of trying to understand what that might feel like or why it feels like a crushing pressure coming from every which way now, some men have doubled down, gloated and dug in. Does putting women down make some men more successful or are they looking at the struggle to get where we are and think making us do it again will make us want to give up and just start agreeing with them? As a millennial graduating in 2008 in a Great Recession, there were zero opportunities and history showed how we got there and where the fault lies and who benefited from everything before that. After going into debt for school because you needed a college degree for entry level positions suddenly, I joined the military for some stability and serving and getting 2 degrees, having a special needs child and no savings after bills, a mortgage and basic necessities in a dual income home. And now boomer men are complaining that I could possibly get any debt relief from a problem their generation contributed to for economic circumstances they don’t understand. All the power and zero empathy is a bad combo. But just like when we chose the bear, they’ll make sure we know why we don’t know anything and just make terrible decisions.
I’m really hoping he goes home and just lives his life. Please no running for office! Nothing about him screams leader, just insanely behind the times.
Unfortunately he doesn't just play football, he and his father run a holding company that owns many other companies (sports drinks, etc.), you can imagine all their marketing is in line with their values. #boycott I would not be surprised in the least if the Evangelical nuts don't elevate him to office after his football career, he's catnip to their political aspirations.
It is so, so important for men to be making these points as allies and encouraging others to do the same. And Jeremy’s newsletter is indeed awesome! (I’m pretty sure his is how I found yours, incidentally.)
Have other men felt safe to say these things around you in a way where they think because you’re a man, you’ll agree? I’m just curious if they ever explain why they must speak about or put those ideas out there? I genuinely don’t understand but I want everyone to have everything they want out of life on their own terms that make them happy and their actively not hurting others in the process. That seems relatively simple but surprisingly tough. After overturning Roe, there is a lot of talking about women’s bodies that is so deeply uncomfortable (and medically incorrect) but then somehow opened the door to discuss everything about women and how to fix us I guess? It’s so unsettling and as a woman I’ll get attacked for asking why. I’m just gobsmacked about this toxic cultural shift of distain for everyone
Masculinity and femininity are made terms by the ruling class to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. While they continue to pillage us blind, destroy the environment, and take away our rights. People are just people. We're one species. We're more similar than different. But the people running this shit show don't want you to realize that.
I agree with people being one species, but I do believe there is a difference between men and women! Biologically, socially, in soooo many ways, and... that's GOOD. If we were all the same, it would be so boring, lol. Now, within that main difference, there's a LOT of crossover (and cross-dressing! ha), because we ARE all once species. The best thing about being human is that we ARE so individual. As a woman, I was always athletic, tomboyish, and I LOVED sports and football in particular (still do), and played it until I got too old (about 7th grade) to be big enough to withstand tackling by boys MUCH bigger than me, but have always got on well with all sorts of people, including men, lol, because I LIKE them, generally speaking.
I think BOTH sexes have had challenges in being who we are, because we are trained by TPTSB to pick on each other. Our culture (I'm in the US), and plenty of other Western cultures, are encouraged to snipe at each other because there is an undercurrent of CONTROL that would likely vanish if we all got along pretty well, had no race problems, no gender problems, no need to WAR on others, and so on... I think we've done pretty well in the last few decades, and if we can continue to learn to judge each other less and value/encourage each other more, we'll be FINE. ^_^
So as I listened to this unbelievably arrogant man speak I became more and more enraged...until....I thought. . . he's a (expletive) Catholic and he's promoting Catholicism. Who does that today if he or she is under the age of 70!!! I was raised a catholic so I am quite familiar with all of its edicts. I went to catholic school for 8 years and knew priests who were later accused of molestation of young boys. These same priests went on to other churches to practice whatever additional obscene behavior they needed to fulfill their twisted desires. I have given up hoping these churches would close their doors and never attempt to interfere in the lives of innocents. Of course the cliche is that "not all priests are bad." Possibly that's true - but All priests are aware of the behavior and acceptance seems to be the rule of the day. Whatever. Church is basically dead to me. I did find it entertaining though that Butker hopes "through our marriage that we will both attain salvation." What a joke! I also know that salvation cannot be earned or attained, but I no longer believe that (expletive) psychobabble either! The saddest part of this whole speech is that someone near and dear to me thinks it is a tribute to women - that he defended his wife and put her on a pedestal. Oh there aren't enough expletives for me to describe how that hit me between the eyes. I am debating whether or not to try and talk through this - but there is a huge part of me that knows any conversation will be met with derision and I simply am not sure if I want to go there. . .
I think a lot of people find that religion is just another way to herd us like sheep. The spirituality inside of us is the real deal, not going to church, or temple, or whatever-- and that is what I think, it's not an Ultimate Truth. But I feel it's true for me.
I came here to suggest bell hooks' 'The will to change' and was so thrilled to see it already included in your resources! Anyone and everyone should read this book, particularly those who already have or intend to have children.
There's a lot of "you already must know" in this article, which doesn't help me as I had little context about this controversy but wanted to learn more. The read was a bit of a waste as it felt more canard than context. I think that's the result of a general lack of self-reflection from the stripe of people who complain about the kinds of thoughts shared by Butker.
It's starting to improve, but there is a long-standing ignorance about the root causes that lead to retrograde concepts of women and secularism. Much reaction, little understanding. Movements to "improve men" will continue to stagnate until the discourse shifts from the "lifestyles I don't understand or appreciate are inherently oppressive, as you know" style this article reflects.
My current most-frightening nightmare scenario is a future eight years from now where a "refined" Andrew Tate type ascends as a celebrity presidential candidate who could rip men from their basements (and bring their sympathetic female trad types) and into the voting booth on a "let's take it back" platform. Don't discount the irrational fuel of male resentment, having collected in barrels for decades. Persistent attitudes that it's solely the job to fix men, as opposed to fixing their environments, could get us there more quickly. The author should best understand they're not speaking to the right choir. It may be harder, but could prove to actually be effective, as you know.
I am curious to hear more from you around how folks can speak directly to men not just to try to 'fix' them, but how to connect and come together around repairing the environment we're all swimming in.
Woman hater. I believe that is the root rot. That is how it was enjoyable to get up there and discount half the humans in the audience. The root of repressive patriarchy is hatred. Look at who they are running for president. He didn’t care about his wife finding out about an affair with a porn star. Why would he? Woman haters. I am sorry if I’ve crossed a line by this comment. I can delete if you prefer.
I had a truly disturbing and weird thought that goes along with this. I let it go but it keeps coming up..
What if all these boxes and crazy roles/ expectations our kids are being given are responsible that so many kids do not want to be a "woman" or a "man" because these roles they would have to play, to fit into that box is just too unnatural ( often displayed at home by non- functioning or abusive moms and dads ) too "wrong" or sick that kids out of instinct refuse to play these insane roles or games.. ???
And it created this culture of non- binary and such things.
Our society is truly sick.. there is no doubt about that.
Our kids are screaming in so many ways... yet we don't seem to listen.
Children that grow up in dysfunctional homes,some in constant fear and terror because mom and dad constantly fight, powerplays, ego- games, physical and verbal abuse, they suffer for years, they have no choice and often no voice, sometimes they are being used as pawns ...
Not something anybody would want especially when finally given a choice.
They are actually genious!
They declare themselves non- binary and such, so they won't have to become a typical mom or dad.
Marianne Snider: I agree that this is Catholic doctrine speaking. You may not be awake that many US Catholic Bishops have caused a schism within the church, breaking away from Pope Francis and his modern "liberal" ways. These bishops want an isolated congregation that is indoctrinated into Vatican I precepts, including the return of Latin Mass and Rites. It's all about control and power. This has nothing to do with religion or God/Jesus 😢
The idea of men being victims is laughable to me. I realize there's great pressure for men to be macho and all that, but I know so many men who are kind and thoughtful, and those are the men I respect.
Women, who actually were (and still are in many cases) oppressed had to work their buns off to get the vote. I remember being rejected decades ago when I applied to get a credit card, despite my excellent credit rating. I switched banks and got one easily. And then there's domestic abuse...
All I'm saying is that I hope men can get together and create a culture for themselves that's warmer, more caring and peaceful, and more fulfilling. The need to dominate isn't a need at all, and the sooner more men realize that the happier they'll be.
Oh, I disagree. (I do agree about women STILL being somewhat kicked around in various ways, but it's BETTER than it was.) But I do think men are victims as surely as women are-- even though I am often irked about certain things they still do, and just a pervasive kind of "Men are the Prototype of Humanity" stuff, lol. (What came first, the chicken or the egg? Well DUH, OBVIOUSLY the chicken!!! LOLOL)
Still.... Look at the PRESSURE for men to be "macho," show no emotion, never cry! Yes, women don't mind, but MEN are still under great pressure in ways like that, even though it has gotten better, I think, for many. It's one thing to genuinely have a hard time showing emotion; it's a whole nother thing to be TOLD not to. And men are supposed to go out and "bring home the bacon"-- they miss a LOT of the growing up time of their children. I think we're improving that, too, for some. No, I think there's a LOT of pressure on men, not just to be macho, but to be SOLDIERS, and to be both strong and tough, but also gentle and kind. I think there's a lot of pressure on EVERYBODY, really. This is not coming FROM society, but DOWN ON US by these elitist assholes running the world. Especially in the Five Eyes countries.... Anyway, Dog bless us, everyone. Shower the people you love with love... We never know when we'll no longer have that option. Sorry, I'm just rambling and blah blah blah!
What I was trying to say was that it's the responsibility of men to change the conditions for men, just as women had to work hard (and still are working hard) to change the conditions for women.
And, sure, I get that it's coming from elites, but do we have to pay attention to them?
In the world I'd like to see, we'd all just get to be as fully ourselves as possible.
I think you meant to say, in that first line, "...the conditions for MEN," not "for me"?
But I think if women want to help with changing anybody's conditions, it's a good thing, just as there were men who helped women do the same.
And as you allude, NO!! we don't have to pay attention to these jerk psycho muffo rat bastard skanky stinkfish butthead assholes!!!!!!!!!! lol Yes, I like to make fun of them and call them silly but obscene names whenever I can...
I'd like to see the world you'd like to see, too. WOMEN will lead the way, by dog. ;)
Oh, yesh, I'm a gal, and a real BITCH! Woof!
And I DO think it's GOOD and PROPER to make fun of the Nasties, insult them, mock them, ignore their BS, and generally flip them arf at every opportunity. ^_^
Besides, if women help the men change the conditions for the men, it will go faster, and be more logical, organized, and generally cleaner. ;) hehehehheh
I try to help men do that, and I think a lot of other women do too. Just in supporting men when they're being vulnerable, or in a way that isn't macho. They're actually my favourite kind of men.
I think the fact that people clapped is what really gets to me. I don’t think it’s due to some evil that these people feel but a true fact that we will clap to anything people say. Great article
What a different world it would be if men like you said to other men who talk like Butker, “I just don’t feel the need to tell anyone else how to live their life. I wonder why you do? Have you thought about that?” Because it comes from deep insecurity.
Oh gawd, he'd go from offense to defense immediately. What he needs is a magick mushroom brain stream-clean. Thenaybe he'd open up and feel.
Wouldn't it be great if psychedelics really did reliably make people more progressive? Unfortunately, I think if you fed a Butker a bunch of mushrooms you'd just end up with Aaron Rodgers...
meh, I'll take a kicker over a washed up QB any time
I know nothing about NFL football, aside from the fact that kickers are barely considered players unless they have a decent history of scoring. Not that his personal insecurities about his job excuse his revanchism or condescension. This is still a millionaire that was given an honor by the school and he chose to repay them by demeaning half of the graduating class and insulting the remainder by implying they wanted to hear his garbage.
That's part of what makes this extra gross from him - he *does* have a remarkable history of scoring. His nickname is "Buttkicker." It's unnecessary nastiness all the way down with this dude.
Yeah see, I don't get it then even in the tiniest way. Although it's fascinating to me that his mother followed in her father's legacy at Emory and his dad…works for a company that he(whiny kicker) and a friend started? Hmm.
https://www.mdkeller.com/theteam
What if you look at this way: He stood up there and made an ASS of himself, lol. He didn't really do anything TO anybody, he just said a big load of BS. Right? No woman out there (me included) has to do anything but laugh. He's still young. Maybe he'll figure it out. Maybe a woman will teach him! But regardless, think of it as a faucet dripping. You can try to FIX IT (not advised), or you can LEAVE. Nobody has to take him seriously.
Yes. This is the only way to deal with people like him. I feel bad for his mom, maybe.
Zackly. Makes me wonder what his mom is like! But, I get tired of all the sniping, too. I want more fun, so ... let's make fun of him. AND his mom, lol j/k.
The sexiest things I find in a man/partner is empathy, compassion and emotional support… people like Elon Musk and other men who talk nonstop about masculinity- I don’t know any woman that respects herself that finds that attractive. I’m a veteran, I make more money than my spouse, my child loves me like crazy and the tools in our house are mine (and pink)- I don’t have a spouse out of necessity or for some other nonsense about needing a man. I have a spouse because he’s amazing and I love him and he’s more secure in our marriage because I could do anything without him, but I don’t want to and choose him everyday. If he woke up and said “I wanna be a professional ping pong player and amateur dj” I’d be on canva creating business cards and browsing thrift stores for bedazzled jeans… you can’t have a “ride or die” if your method of companionship is oppression.
Emily, this is brilliantly articulated!! Would you mind if I shared your note to my feed?
"... you can’t have a “ride or die” if your method of companionship is oppression." 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
lol sure! I get rage rant when I watch that video so I’m surprised it’s even coherent to be honest. So much input from men on what women can, should, and shouldn’t want to be or want or live… laws on my body and opinions in my face constantly. Some men need art projects… and thicker helmet padding
Heh, I feel you sister! I'm exhausted/enraged all the damn time, and it's getting worse for women. I cannot even imagine what feminists over 50 must feel. Worse yet, I'm seeing quite a bit from Gen Z & A that wildly misplaces patriarchal and misogynistic ideals as "feminist choices", it's mind-boggling. Sigh...
Thanks for letting me share! 💙
Oh there’s this notion and maybe because women have surpassed men in education now, but it’s this idea that education and reading has brainwashed us? We need to elect someone to sit around and watch Fox News so we can at least find out what super weird and distorted ideas will be thrown out way next. We wont need birth control soon enough because the thought of a man will make our ovaries run and die
Regardless of the fact that it would be a medical miracle if I got pregnant for multiple reasons, I am definitely on the repulsion birth control plan. I've been gloriously single since I separated in 2017 from an 11 year marriage and I have not wanted to date at all!! I finally found peace and contentment, with a side helping of feminist anti-capitalist killjoy rage!! LOL
I do also have this wanting to peek behind the curtain feeling on Fox, but I cannot bring myself to watch whatever nonsense they're spewing, and I don't know if I could subject another woman to that mental and emotional torture. Fortunately Rachel Maddow does a good job!
Well, I took a 2 week mental break from my mother when, after I went with my veterans group down to the campus encampment to protest in support of Palestine and the BDS movement, she told me what was ACTUALLY happening. This woman who I grew up taking advice from, told me that CHINA, was behind the college protests and that myself and 15 other veterans of various ages, backgrounds and rank, were brainwashed through TikTok (I bet over half these guys have no idea what that is) by China to support a terrorist organization and China was paying for everything. 🤯🤷♀️😳 After asking if I send my gas receipt directly to China for reimbursement, I took a break from her. I love her, but the conspiracy theories and harmful information she spews and refuses to listen to anything else… I’m going to say that’s what’s behind the curtain and it needs an exorcism to cast those weird demons out.
Which is just crazy that no matter what age you are on this earth, if you are not a white man, the government and court actively worked against you and instead of trying to understand what that might feel like or why it feels like a crushing pressure coming from every which way now, some men have doubled down, gloated and dug in. Does putting women down make some men more successful or are they looking at the struggle to get where we are and think making us do it again will make us want to give up and just start agreeing with them? As a millennial graduating in 2008 in a Great Recession, there were zero opportunities and history showed how we got there and where the fault lies and who benefited from everything before that. After going into debt for school because you needed a college degree for entry level positions suddenly, I joined the military for some stability and serving and getting 2 degrees, having a special needs child and no savings after bills, a mortgage and basic necessities in a dual income home. And now boomer men are complaining that I could possibly get any debt relief from a problem their generation contributed to for economic circumstances they don’t understand. All the power and zero empathy is a bad combo. But just like when we chose the bear, they’ll make sure we know why we don’t know anything and just make terrible decisions.
I'm almost 65. It's so exhausting being so angry for so long.
I’m really hoping he goes home and just lives his life. Please no running for office! Nothing about him screams leader, just insanely behind the times.
Unfortunately he doesn't just play football, he and his father run a holding company that owns many other companies (sports drinks, etc.), you can imagine all their marketing is in line with their values. #boycott I would not be surprised in the least if the Evangelical nuts don't elevate him to office after his football career, he's catnip to their political aspirations.
It is so, so important for men to be making these points as allies and encouraging others to do the same. And Jeremy’s newsletter is indeed awesome! (I’m pretty sure his is how I found yours, incidentally.)
Have other men felt safe to say these things around you in a way where they think because you’re a man, you’ll agree? I’m just curious if they ever explain why they must speak about or put those ideas out there? I genuinely don’t understand but I want everyone to have everything they want out of life on their own terms that make them happy and their actively not hurting others in the process. That seems relatively simple but surprisingly tough. After overturning Roe, there is a lot of talking about women’s bodies that is so deeply uncomfortable (and medically incorrect) but then somehow opened the door to discuss everything about women and how to fix us I guess? It’s so unsettling and as a woman I’ll get attacked for asking why. I’m just gobsmacked about this toxic cultural shift of distain for everyone
I am a woman, so I share your sense of puzzlement.
Masculinity and femininity are made terms by the ruling class to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. While they continue to pillage us blind, destroy the environment, and take away our rights. People are just people. We're one species. We're more similar than different. But the people running this shit show don't want you to realize that.
I agree with people being one species, but I do believe there is a difference between men and women! Biologically, socially, in soooo many ways, and... that's GOOD. If we were all the same, it would be so boring, lol. Now, within that main difference, there's a LOT of crossover (and cross-dressing! ha), because we ARE all once species. The best thing about being human is that we ARE so individual. As a woman, I was always athletic, tomboyish, and I LOVED sports and football in particular (still do), and played it until I got too old (about 7th grade) to be big enough to withstand tackling by boys MUCH bigger than me, but have always got on well with all sorts of people, including men, lol, because I LIKE them, generally speaking.
I think BOTH sexes have had challenges in being who we are, because we are trained by TPTSB to pick on each other. Our culture (I'm in the US), and plenty of other Western cultures, are encouraged to snipe at each other because there is an undercurrent of CONTROL that would likely vanish if we all got along pretty well, had no race problems, no gender problems, no need to WAR on others, and so on... I think we've done pretty well in the last few decades, and if we can continue to learn to judge each other less and value/encourage each other more, we'll be FINE. ^_^
So as I listened to this unbelievably arrogant man speak I became more and more enraged...until....I thought. . . he's a (expletive) Catholic and he's promoting Catholicism. Who does that today if he or she is under the age of 70!!! I was raised a catholic so I am quite familiar with all of its edicts. I went to catholic school for 8 years and knew priests who were later accused of molestation of young boys. These same priests went on to other churches to practice whatever additional obscene behavior they needed to fulfill their twisted desires. I have given up hoping these churches would close their doors and never attempt to interfere in the lives of innocents. Of course the cliche is that "not all priests are bad." Possibly that's true - but All priests are aware of the behavior and acceptance seems to be the rule of the day. Whatever. Church is basically dead to me. I did find it entertaining though that Butker hopes "through our marriage that we will both attain salvation." What a joke! I also know that salvation cannot be earned or attained, but I no longer believe that (expletive) psychobabble either! The saddest part of this whole speech is that someone near and dear to me thinks it is a tribute to women - that he defended his wife and put her on a pedestal. Oh there aren't enough expletives for me to describe how that hit me between the eyes. I am debating whether or not to try and talk through this - but there is a huge part of me that knows any conversation will be met with derision and I simply am not sure if I want to go there. . .
I think a lot of people find that religion is just another way to herd us like sheep. The spirituality inside of us is the real deal, not going to church, or temple, or whatever-- and that is what I think, it's not an Ultimate Truth. But I feel it's true for me.
I came here to suggest bell hooks' 'The will to change' and was so thrilled to see it already included in your resources! Anyone and everyone should read this book, particularly those who already have or intend to have children.
Ridiculous how much of the speech was an exercise in dancing around the elephant in the room. Ugh - religion...
There's a lot of "you already must know" in this article, which doesn't help me as I had little context about this controversy but wanted to learn more. The read was a bit of a waste as it felt more canard than context. I think that's the result of a general lack of self-reflection from the stripe of people who complain about the kinds of thoughts shared by Butker.
It's starting to improve, but there is a long-standing ignorance about the root causes that lead to retrograde concepts of women and secularism. Much reaction, little understanding. Movements to "improve men" will continue to stagnate until the discourse shifts from the "lifestyles I don't understand or appreciate are inherently oppressive, as you know" style this article reflects.
My current most-frightening nightmare scenario is a future eight years from now where a "refined" Andrew Tate type ascends as a celebrity presidential candidate who could rip men from their basements (and bring their sympathetic female trad types) and into the voting booth on a "let's take it back" platform. Don't discount the irrational fuel of male resentment, having collected in barrels for decades. Persistent attitudes that it's solely the job to fix men, as opposed to fixing their environments, could get us there more quickly. The author should best understand they're not speaking to the right choir. It may be harder, but could prove to actually be effective, as you know.
I am curious to hear more from you around how folks can speak directly to men not just to try to 'fix' them, but how to connect and come together around repairing the environment we're all swimming in.
I bet harrison butker watches a lot of porn.
Woman hater. I believe that is the root rot. That is how it was enjoyable to get up there and discount half the humans in the audience. The root of repressive patriarchy is hatred. Look at who they are running for president. He didn’t care about his wife finding out about an affair with a porn star. Why would he? Woman haters. I am sorry if I’ve crossed a line by this comment. I can delete if you prefer.
I had a truly disturbing and weird thought that goes along with this. I let it go but it keeps coming up..
What if all these boxes and crazy roles/ expectations our kids are being given are responsible that so many kids do not want to be a "woman" or a "man" because these roles they would have to play, to fit into that box is just too unnatural ( often displayed at home by non- functioning or abusive moms and dads ) too "wrong" or sick that kids out of instinct refuse to play these insane roles or games.. ???
And it created this culture of non- binary and such things.
Our society is truly sick.. there is no doubt about that.
Our kids are screaming in so many ways... yet we don't seem to listen.
Very interesting 🧐 I will ponder it
Children that grow up in dysfunctional homes,some in constant fear and terror because mom and dad constantly fight, powerplays, ego- games, physical and verbal abuse, they suffer for years, they have no choice and often no voice, sometimes they are being used as pawns ...
Not something anybody would want especially when finally given a choice.
They are actually genious!
They declare themselves non- binary and such, so they won't have to become a typical mom or dad.
Marianne Snider: I agree that this is Catholic doctrine speaking. You may not be awake that many US Catholic Bishops have caused a schism within the church, breaking away from Pope Francis and his modern "liberal" ways. These bishops want an isolated congregation that is indoctrinated into Vatican I precepts, including the return of Latin Mass and Rites. It's all about control and power. This has nothing to do with religion or God/Jesus 😢
Such great points, Joshua!
The idea of men being victims is laughable to me. I realize there's great pressure for men to be macho and all that, but I know so many men who are kind and thoughtful, and those are the men I respect.
Women, who actually were (and still are in many cases) oppressed had to work their buns off to get the vote. I remember being rejected decades ago when I applied to get a credit card, despite my excellent credit rating. I switched banks and got one easily. And then there's domestic abuse...
All I'm saying is that I hope men can get together and create a culture for themselves that's warmer, more caring and peaceful, and more fulfilling. The need to dominate isn't a need at all, and the sooner more men realize that the happier they'll be.
Men can ABSOLUTLEY be victims.
Just not this time and not this Buttkick guy.
Oh, I disagree. (I do agree about women STILL being somewhat kicked around in various ways, but it's BETTER than it was.) But I do think men are victims as surely as women are-- even though I am often irked about certain things they still do, and just a pervasive kind of "Men are the Prototype of Humanity" stuff, lol. (What came first, the chicken or the egg? Well DUH, OBVIOUSLY the chicken!!! LOLOL)
Still.... Look at the PRESSURE for men to be "macho," show no emotion, never cry! Yes, women don't mind, but MEN are still under great pressure in ways like that, even though it has gotten better, I think, for many. It's one thing to genuinely have a hard time showing emotion; it's a whole nother thing to be TOLD not to. And men are supposed to go out and "bring home the bacon"-- they miss a LOT of the growing up time of their children. I think we're improving that, too, for some. No, I think there's a LOT of pressure on men, not just to be macho, but to be SOLDIERS, and to be both strong and tough, but also gentle and kind. I think there's a lot of pressure on EVERYBODY, really. This is not coming FROM society, but DOWN ON US by these elitist assholes running the world. Especially in the Five Eyes countries.... Anyway, Dog bless us, everyone. Shower the people you love with love... We never know when we'll no longer have that option. Sorry, I'm just rambling and blah blah blah!
I get it, really.
What I was trying to say was that it's the responsibility of men to change the conditions for men, just as women had to work hard (and still are working hard) to change the conditions for women.
And, sure, I get that it's coming from elites, but do we have to pay attention to them?
In the world I'd like to see, we'd all just get to be as fully ourselves as possible.
And we are all people, despite our genders.
I think you meant to say, in that first line, "...the conditions for MEN," not "for me"?
But I think if women want to help with changing anybody's conditions, it's a good thing, just as there were men who helped women do the same.
And as you allude, NO!! we don't have to pay attention to these jerk psycho muffo rat bastard skanky stinkfish butthead assholes!!!!!!!!!! lol Yes, I like to make fun of them and call them silly but obscene names whenever I can...
I'd like to see the world you'd like to see, too. WOMEN will lead the way, by dog. ;)
Oh, yesh, I'm a gal, and a real BITCH! Woof!
And I DO think it's GOOD and PROPER to make fun of the Nasties, insult them, mock them, ignore their BS, and generally flip them arf at every opportunity. ^_^
Besides, if women help the men change the conditions for the men, it will go faster, and be more logical, organized, and generally cleaner. ;) hehehehheh
I try to help men do that, and I think a lot of other women do too. Just in supporting men when they're being vulnerable, or in a way that isn't macho. They're actually my favourite kind of men.
I agree. I think MOST people are trying to do good. We're under a lot of brainwashing, so kudos to anyone who can think past the nonsense! xo
I think the fact that people clapped is what really gets to me. I don’t think it’s due to some evil that these people feel but a true fact that we will clap to anything people say. Great article