Great post! I think what gets men insecure and desire to rediscover their masculinity is groups in society challenge gender norms, and question assumed gender differences. If you question the foundational patriachal beliefs about gender roles and what makes a man a man and a woman a woman, you question your own place within society. I think when you feel like a ship out at sea, lonely and feeling undervalued, that risk of uncertainty is scary, and the certainty of patriarchy is alluring even if it's oppressive.
Do you think women feel just as lost and uncertain due to the questioning of foundational patriarchal beliefs about what makes a woman a woman? If so, why? If not, why not?
I think so. But just like with femcels vs. incels, we're taught it's an issue within ourselves we need to fix, vs. men encouraged to outsource that work to others.
Whenever people are pushed to make their own meaning, some simply don't want to. The increase in TradWives, I think, proves that. They are working outside of the home (influencing, MLMs) but claim a 'stay at home' status as their preferred signifier.
Some white women feel safer automatically being #2 in society, behind white men, than having to find their own slot. In an old school patriarchal society, you only needed to find a decent man (as a middle class white woman) to survive. Now you "need" to find a decent man and a career. I can see how for some people it feels like a downgrade, if you don't appreciate the freedom to subvert expectations and make it on your own.
There are always reactionary women, since there are always reactionary people!
Obviously, choosing to be barefoot in the kitchen is just as valid as running for office, but if you then put down people not making your same choice, that's where the issue is!
I dont have the female experience to speak in depth. Just from observation and reading, i think if you're place in society has been anchored in your spouses position in that power structure, you still get to hold onto prestige and social status. If that is challenged, you lose those. Not to mention anytime change comes, those with privilege, even if its secondary privilege, will fight to uphold it. And just like the Israelites in the desert, even slavery can seem appealing to the unkown.
Absolutely spot on. As a young person who used to be right-leaning and followed fascist grifters like Jordan Peterson, I can attest that used to fall for the propaganda that "feminists are ruining western civilization" or whatever because I felt insecure and alone, and this insecurity/loneliness was reinforced by the patriarchal standards that we set on men and women. Even after putting all of that behind me I still have difficulty expressing my emotions. I don't think a lot of people understand the irreparable harm people like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate inflict on young men.
Hmm. As a right-leaning guy myself, I'm wondering what about Jordan Peterson you find so horrible? I'd say he's one of the most profoundly positive influences on my life. As to Andrew Tate, I don't like the guy-- I find his brash douchebaggery to be off putting. But I watched most of his 5-hour interview on PBD, and I found him more to be a showman, putting on a charade that gets him attention. I forget where I read this, but I saw someone recently say that he's the male equivalent of the instagram hoe, performing what unsophisticated men think that women find attractive.
Thank you for writing this. It is thoughtful and essential that men have more exposure to these realities and truths about relationships. Being vulnerable about your own perceptions and conditioning gives this a trustworthy voice that hopefully resonates with other men who are tired of the paralyzing constraints of masculinity. There is no one way dehumanization.
This piece is really wonderful, thank you for taking the time to articulate these things so clearly and directly. It's fascinating for me as a trans woman to have grappled with the same social factors and environments, but with a different perspective and outcome. My relationship to masculinity and the men in my life has absolutely been damaged by the issues you describe, but I appreciate seeing that there's at least some men working to chart a new and different course.
Great article. Individuals like Tate are predators and hustlers, insecure bullies despite their bravado. I read that he and his brother were arrested for human trafficking among other charges. It didn't surprise me.
The rise in aggressive misogyny, especially in white men, is a backlash to their losing societal control. Attacking women both physically and verbally is age old however. The Old Testament is replete with it. Women are "evil" the root of men's demise. As a woman I'm sick of this s**t!
Violence against women is a global epidemic. Femicide is worldwide. Human trafficking of women is a billion dollar industry. Who are the perpetrators? Guess.
You left out incels and their "entitlement" to sex in your analysis.
I appreciate your soul searching. Just be human. Stop focusing on male/female. Just be the human being you are and realize we're all human beings. See everyone as struggling fellow humans. Gender isn't an identity. We're souls sent into a terribly broken world that needs our help. You're breaking the cycle by changing your viewpoint. Thank you.
I'm on this journey with you. In case you haven't read it--but I suspect you have--the book "The Will to Change" by bell hooks is a good read, and it explores what you're exploring here.
Real talk: as a cis man myself, I can feel so alienated from the inadequacies and fucked up beliefs of some cis men that I start questioning my own sense of reality and wonder if I'm a man at all. And while it's good to keep an open mind about our gender, I've come to realize that I've fallen for their sexist, transphobic idea that if you support and affirm women, you must *by necessity* be a woman yourself. If you support and affirm trans people, you must be secretly trans too. As if they are the only valid cis men and I'm invalid.
But nah, fuck that. I wanna be one of the boys and fuck them for trying to ruin it for me and so many others.
This also applies to sexuality, as these straight men are attracted to women based on their ability to objectify and subjugate them and think love and care have nothing to do with it. They are so warped in their priorities that the ridiculous becomes serious: is it actually "gay" to love women? Is your heterosexuality "invalid" because you admire them? As a bi man who used to be a lot more interested in other men but is now a lot more interested in women, I thought that I must be gay in the past because I didn't relate to women like straight men did.
Just curious, why do you think treating women like people and improving communication in your personal relationships would impede your path to happiness and/or leadership?
Instead of seeking a girlfriend, how about if you just become friends with some women, without expectations? Be yourself, and don't try to "learn your way" to talk to them. They're people, like you. Maybe eventually a friendship will turn into a relationship. Or not.
Believe me, most women are looking for good, kind, regular men. Not some alpha macho fantasy.
"Life sucks, it's cruel and unfair, but that's what it is."
It doesn't have to be. Joshua is here trying to explore what it might mean to work towards a different world. Why are you so determined to remain set in the way things are now?
Great post! I think what gets men insecure and desire to rediscover their masculinity is groups in society challenge gender norms, and question assumed gender differences. If you question the foundational patriachal beliefs about gender roles and what makes a man a man and a woman a woman, you question your own place within society. I think when you feel like a ship out at sea, lonely and feeling undervalued, that risk of uncertainty is scary, and the certainty of patriarchy is alluring even if it's oppressive.
Do you think women feel just as lost and uncertain due to the questioning of foundational patriarchal beliefs about what makes a woman a woman? If so, why? If not, why not?
I think so. But just like with femcels vs. incels, we're taught it's an issue within ourselves we need to fix, vs. men encouraged to outsource that work to others.
Whenever people are pushed to make their own meaning, some simply don't want to. The increase in TradWives, I think, proves that. They are working outside of the home (influencing, MLMs) but claim a 'stay at home' status as their preferred signifier.
Some white women feel safer automatically being #2 in society, behind white men, than having to find their own slot. In an old school patriarchal society, you only needed to find a decent man (as a middle class white woman) to survive. Now you "need" to find a decent man and a career. I can see how for some people it feels like a downgrade, if you don't appreciate the freedom to subvert expectations and make it on your own.
There are always reactionary women, since there are always reactionary people!
Obviously, choosing to be barefoot in the kitchen is just as valid as running for office, but if you then put down people not making your same choice, that's where the issue is!
I dont have the female experience to speak in depth. Just from observation and reading, i think if you're place in society has been anchored in your spouses position in that power structure, you still get to hold onto prestige and social status. If that is challenged, you lose those. Not to mention anytime change comes, those with privilege, even if its secondary privilege, will fight to uphold it. And just like the Israelites in the desert, even slavery can seem appealing to the unkown.
Thanks for the insightful answers!
Absolutely spot on. As a young person who used to be right-leaning and followed fascist grifters like Jordan Peterson, I can attest that used to fall for the propaganda that "feminists are ruining western civilization" or whatever because I felt insecure and alone, and this insecurity/loneliness was reinforced by the patriarchal standards that we set on men and women. Even after putting all of that behind me I still have difficulty expressing my emotions. I don't think a lot of people understand the irreparable harm people like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate inflict on young men.
Hmm. As a right-leaning guy myself, I'm wondering what about Jordan Peterson you find so horrible? I'd say he's one of the most profoundly positive influences on my life. As to Andrew Tate, I don't like the guy-- I find his brash douchebaggery to be off putting. But I watched most of his 5-hour interview on PBD, and I found him more to be a showman, putting on a charade that gets him attention. I forget where I read this, but I saw someone recently say that he's the male equivalent of the instagram hoe, performing what unsophisticated men think that women find attractive.
Thank you for writing this. It is thoughtful and essential that men have more exposure to these realities and truths about relationships. Being vulnerable about your own perceptions and conditioning gives this a trustworthy voice that hopefully resonates with other men who are tired of the paralyzing constraints of masculinity. There is no one way dehumanization.
"There is no one way dehumanization" is a line that's going to stick with me for a while.
This piece is really wonderful, thank you for taking the time to articulate these things so clearly and directly. It's fascinating for me as a trans woman to have grappled with the same social factors and environments, but with a different perspective and outcome. My relationship to masculinity and the men in my life has absolutely been damaged by the issues you describe, but I appreciate seeing that there's at least some men working to chart a new and different course.
Absolutely fantastic piece. I saw this in one of your tweets and it’s inspired me to create a sub stack for my writing. Thank you
Great article. Individuals like Tate are predators and hustlers, insecure bullies despite their bravado. I read that he and his brother were arrested for human trafficking among other charges. It didn't surprise me.
The rise in aggressive misogyny, especially in white men, is a backlash to their losing societal control. Attacking women both physically and verbally is age old however. The Old Testament is replete with it. Women are "evil" the root of men's demise. As a woman I'm sick of this s**t!
Violence against women is a global epidemic. Femicide is worldwide. Human trafficking of women is a billion dollar industry. Who are the perpetrators? Guess.
You left out incels and their "entitlement" to sex in your analysis.
I appreciate your soul searching. Just be human. Stop focusing on male/female. Just be the human being you are and realize we're all human beings. See everyone as struggling fellow humans. Gender isn't an identity. We're souls sent into a terribly broken world that needs our help. You're breaking the cycle by changing your viewpoint. Thank you.
I'm on this journey with you. In case you haven't read it--but I suspect you have--the book "The Will to Change" by bell hooks is a good read, and it explores what you're exploring here.
Real talk: as a cis man myself, I can feel so alienated from the inadequacies and fucked up beliefs of some cis men that I start questioning my own sense of reality and wonder if I'm a man at all. And while it's good to keep an open mind about our gender, I've come to realize that I've fallen for their sexist, transphobic idea that if you support and affirm women, you must *by necessity* be a woman yourself. If you support and affirm trans people, you must be secretly trans too. As if they are the only valid cis men and I'm invalid.
But nah, fuck that. I wanna be one of the boys and fuck them for trying to ruin it for me and so many others.
This also applies to sexuality, as these straight men are attracted to women based on their ability to objectify and subjugate them and think love and care have nothing to do with it. They are so warped in their priorities that the ridiculous becomes serious: is it actually "gay" to love women? Is your heterosexuality "invalid" because you admire them? As a bi man who used to be a lot more interested in other men but is now a lot more interested in women, I thought that I must be gay in the past because I didn't relate to women like straight men did.
Man this is some Bs
"treat women like people" really touched a nerve huh
Just curious, why do you think treating women like people and improving communication in your personal relationships would impede your path to happiness and/or leadership?
Instead of seeking a girlfriend, how about if you just become friends with some women, without expectations? Be yourself, and don't try to "learn your way" to talk to them. They're people, like you. Maybe eventually a friendship will turn into a relationship. Or not.
Believe me, most women are looking for good, kind, regular men. Not some alpha macho fantasy.
"Life sucks, it's cruel and unfair, but that's what it is."
It doesn't have to be. Joshua is here trying to explore what it might mean to work towards a different world. Why are you so determined to remain set in the way things are now?